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this vote will decide about the future of this invention: |
this can be added to the game |
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88% |
[ 16 ] |
it needs some changes but it is a good invention |
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11% |
[ 2 ] |
i will post the needed changes here |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
no good try another one |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
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Total Votes : 18 |
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Robert Roy Vice Admiral
Joined: 11 Jan 2006 Posts: 525 Location: Netherlands
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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SOAT wrote: | mjx1 wrote: | lol i dont have a clue what soat said either but... |
yup, my english su ck |
It was quite understandable. It doesn't have to do with english or being intelligent, but simply level of education.
It clearly made sense and it clarified it for me.
But even if it would have been better in required time, I wouldn't use it because you can't turn it around.
So if we just act like this new probe would be better, you were gonna scan all planets within 80 sectors from your planet in every imaginary direction, you would let's say first go to x+40/7/z and you would just scan planets in a straight line.
In the long run it wouldn't be bad (And thus it might be usefull in the long run.), but if you need some targets quickly, it is much better to have option 1 instead of 2:
- To know all planets within 10 sectors in any direction
- To know a few of the planets within 10 sectors in any direction plus some others but those are further away and thus not interesting yet. _________________ Nulla poena sine lege.. |
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Rubens Admiral
Joined: 20 Apr 2003 Posts: 1422
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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SOAT wrote: | mjx1 wrote: | lol i dont have a clue what soat said either but... |
yup, my english su ck
also used only high estimates and cube instead of cylinder... oops, so the moving probe is even slightly worse
regards |
SOAT is just using the formula to calculate the V of a sphere(or somethingxD) which is 4/3 *pi(3,1416)*r*r*r.
Indeed he is right, if you reduce the time as i said it would hard to manage.
But what you didnt take ina ccount at least you made the ship is that the probe scan everything...Well i think so...
Am i right? I mean it should work as a oscilation, a investigation and all that together EXCEPT as a pyramid device or DSP which is already something like a investigation probe that can be moved on the space.
If this is just a investigation probe that estabilish comrelays its pretty useless.
If you want something like that just use the pyramid device or combine it with the normal investigation probe.
Another question, does this probe estabilish connection while moving or you have to wait till it is on the exact sector?. Before adding it we should know how the hell will this work.
Once and again the ship created is senseless but the idea is quite good |
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SOAT Commander
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 91
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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As I understand, it was meant as a normal investigation probe that estabilishes only com relays while moving, just a probe for getting com links, no ship at all.
About the useless, as Robert Roy told, it may have its use if someone want to get com links from distant places with minimal effort and you may be even offline several days.
regards |
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admin Board Admin
Joined: 09 Jan 2002 Posts: 2938
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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this is how we could add it: the probe doesent scan while it is moving, but when it reaches the target it scans there and you can enter new coordinates where it should fly next. you can even change course while flying, but it will always only scan when it stops somewhere. it will not be race specific, and it will be availiable on a planet first. maybe we add it to the tec tree later
SOAT: maybe you can calculate the perfect scanradius and speed, so it will be balanced with the investigation probe? |
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Rubens Admiral
Joined: 20 Apr 2003 Posts: 1422
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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admin wrote: | this is how we could add it: the probe doesent scan while it is moving, but when it reaches the target it scans there and you can enter new coordinates where it should fly next. you can even change course while flying, but it will always only scan when it stops somewhere. it will not be race specific, and it will be availiable on a planet first. maybe we add it to the tec tree later
SOAT: maybe you can calculate the perfect scanradius and speed, so it will be balanced with the investigation probe? |
Ok now we understand that.
So i say its useless...at least i wont use it. It needs to be a lot faster. You are just getting the 4 hours of building a investigation probe as a gain? And for sure we need to us ethis ship in a long run so those 4 hours are lost when this probe is flying.
I think it should scan for nearby ships in prewarp planets, other probe and etc. |
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SOAT Commander
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 91
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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admin wrote: | maybe you can calculate the perfect scanradius and speed, so it will be balanced with the investigation probe? |
The moving investigation probe as originally suggested has a advantage that one doesnt need to worry about it when it starts for maybe several days. This is contrary to the standard investigation probes where one needs to build them often and only rarely is effecient (like the probe has to wait before starting if the player is offline, often many hours).
I estimated that the standard investigation probe is about 4 times better than the moving version with scanradius 5 and speed 2, if you need scan up to about 70 sectors away in particular direction. But it assumes 100% effeciency with the normal investigation probes, like sending them right when they are build, which is rarely done. Also if it will make sence to scan more than 100 sectors away in particular direction, then the standad investigation would be about 3 times better (assuming 100% effeciency) than the moving version.
So, my personal view, if you make it about 2-2.5 times better, the moving version will be very comparable to the standard one.
So mayby speed 4 (2 times better) or even 5 (2.5 times better) with scanradius 5
Or speed 2 and scanradius 7 (2 times better because for cylinder, or better pie, S=pi*r*r where 5*5=25 and 7*7=49 ) or even scanradius 8 (about 2.5 times better because 8*8=64 )
Of course if the suggested feature would be used like user may change the course then the balancing would be different, your suggested speed 2 and scanradius 5 would be good enought without the need of increasing, but if too good i dont know
regards |
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Rubens Admiral
Joined: 20 Apr 2003 Posts: 1422
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:15 am Post subject: |
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SOAT wrote: | admin wrote: | maybe you can calculate the perfect scanradius and speed, so it will be balanced with the investigation probe? |
The moving investigation probe as originally suggested has a advantage that one doesnt need to worry about it when it starts for maybe several days. This is contrary to the standard investigation probes where one needs to build them often and only rarely is effecient (like the probe has to wait before starting if the player is offline, often many hours).
I estimated that the standard investigation probe is about 4 times better than the moving version with scanradius 5 and speed 2, if you need scan up to about 70 sectors away in particular direction. But it assumes 100% effeciency with the normal investigation probes, like sending them right when they are build, which is rarely done. Also if it will make sence to scan more than 100 sectors away in particular direction, then the standad investigation would be about 3 times better (assuming 100% effeciency) than the moving version.
So, my personal view, if you make it about 2-2.5 times better, the moving version will be very comparable to the standard one.
So mayby speed 4 (2 times better) or even 5 (2.5 times better) with scanradius 5
Or speed 2 and scanradius 7 (2 times better because for cylinder, or better pie, S=pi*r*r where 5*5=25 and 7*7=49 ) or even scanradius 8 (about 2.5 times better because 8*8=64 )
Of course if the suggested feature would be used like user may change the course then the balancing would be different, your suggested speed 2 and scanradius 5 would be good enought without the need of increasing, but if too good i dont know
regards |
I note something wrong or at least not taken in account in your calcs.
This invention CAN NOT be better then the investigation probe, even not balanced at the same. It has to be just different so then you will have 2 options.
Find fast till a medium distance or find slow-medium at any distance without having the problem of been online.
Of course we have to remember that you just scan when it is not moving.
PD:If added scan each 100-200 ly till you go to sleep
Then i repeat, will this work just as a moving version of the IP? If so...
Warp 5 Scanradius 4-6...So you can fly with an eye on the sky a MS and this probe attacking any base.
Sorry about this but i want to repeat, just a IP's version moving sucks. Why to research this when you can keep making investigation probes and you just have 3 slots of probe in which a normal player uses 3 DSP or 2 and 1 EOTS? (Which cans ee bases whil moving), also a we have the IP ETA calculator, then we would need to do a new one with this etc... |
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Grim Fandango Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 26 Mar 2006 Posts: 58 Location: USA
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:05 am Post subject: |
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wow atually not too bad for an invention coming fromkody *cough* *cough* *MAC Cannon* *cough* |
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lilkrnboi1018 Admiral
Joined: 16 Apr 2005 Posts: 1182 Location: Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:28 am Post subject: |
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hey wait, i never said i didn't understand SOAT, i got wat he said, i'm just saying he is getting pretty technical _________________ PWNAGE!
Gotta love the Magnum (RE 0-3)
Or the Eagle (RE 3)
Leader of DEFIANCE
The grounds are soaked... with your blood! |
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admin Board Admin
Joined: 09 Jan 2002 Posts: 2938
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:51 am Post subject: |
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(technical calculations are needed here)
SOAT wrote: | admin wrote: | maybe you can calculate the perfect scanradius and speed, so it will be balanced with the investigation probe? |
Of course if the suggested feature would be used like user may change the course then the balancing would be different, your suggested speed 2 and scanradius 5 would be good enought without the need of increasing, but if too good i dont know
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Rubens wrote: | will this work just as a moving version of the IP? If so...
Warp 5 Scanradius 4-6 |
Code: | investigation probe:
scanradius: 10
speed: warp 10
researchtime: 8 h
buildingtime: 4 h |
so i suggest:
scanradius: 5
speed: warp 2
researchtime: 8 h
buildingtime: 10 h
i still think this is balanced:
8 times less volume in one scan
very slow.
it will only scan when you are online and stop at certain places
i assume the "efficiency" of using normal IPs is about one probe a day for a normal user, that takes his time out for sleep
with this probe, to scan the same radius, you need to change course 8 times a day, which is balanced (quite a lot work)
the advantage of this probe will grow, when you ave far away from base, so it woiuld add something new to the gameplay |
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SOAT Commander
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 91
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:35 am Post subject: |
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admin wrote: | i assume the "efficiency" of using normal IPs is about one probe a day for a normal user, that takes his time out for sleep |
Then he will scan at distant place this Volume:
V = 4/3 * pi * r*r*r, where r=10
V= 4188
Lets consider the player will use your probe this way that he move it just 2 sectors away every 3 hours, 6 times a day
Very roughly estimate is Cylinder Volume if he will move in one direction only:
V = pi * r*r*v, where r=5 and v=12 sectors
V=943 , and even smaller because it will be not whole cylinder volume scanned
So as you see with normal IP you will scan almost 5 times bigger distant Volume in a day than with this moving version
regards |
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Rubens Admiral
Joined: 20 Apr 2003 Posts: 1422
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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admin wrote: | (technical calculations are needed here)
SOAT wrote: | admin wrote: | maybe you can calculate the perfect scanradius and speed, so it will be balanced with the investigation probe? |
Of course if the suggested feature would be used like user may change the course then the balancing would be different, your suggested speed 2 and scanradius 5 would be good enought without the need of increasing, but if too good i dont know
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Rubens wrote: | will this work just as a moving version of the IP? If so...
Warp 5 Scanradius 4-6 |
Code: | investigation probe:
scanradius: 10
speed: warp 10
researchtime: 8 h
buildingtime: 4 h |
so i suggest:
scanradius: 5
speed: warp 2
researchtime: 8 h
buildingtime: 10 h
i still think this is balanced:
8 times less volume in one scan
very slow.
it will only scan when you are online and stop at certain places
i assume the "efficiency" of using normal IPs is about one probe a day for a normal user, that takes his time out for sleep
with this probe, to scan the same radius, you need to change course 8 times a day, which is balanced (quite a lot work)
the advantage of this probe will grow, when you ave far away from base, so it woiuld add something new to the gameplay |
I still dont get why would be this usefull in a long distance? This probe can keep moving but with YOUR suggestion it travels 5 time less. So who wouldnt use the normal IP?
Also we should think about another drawback to implement this ship. What about a better probe but it takes 2 slots?... |
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Animal311 2nd Lieutenant
Joined: 19 Apr 2006 Posts: 14 Location: Kashyyk
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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it is me the Animal, i have resently returned from the dead to say that this is my invention, and i will respect any input, so that in the future, when i rise again, it will be in an improved state oh and grim fandango? Cody is spelled with a C _________________ I am The Animal, in mind and spirit and i rise again
a wise man once said; "PUDDING" and was so smitten for his insolence
What is Civil War but a War on Civility? |
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Animal311 2nd Lieutenant
Joined: 19 Apr 2006 Posts: 14 Location: Kashyyk
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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i origionally intended for this to be a fire and forget type of thing, it doesent deed to stop or be redirected, you simply send it to some far of coords and it slowly feeds you intell about where its been, after it reeched its destination or ran out of use, you just destroy it, it just never stops moving or scanning _________________ I am The Animal, in mind and spirit and i rise again
a wise man once said; "PUDDING" and was so smitten for his insolence
What is Civil War but a War on Civility? |
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Grim Fandango Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 26 Mar 2006 Posts: 58 Location: USA
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:58 am Post subject: |
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yes I know it is with a c but k's are way better |
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omalicat 1st Rear Admiral
Joined: 10 Jun 2006 Posts: 253 Location: on my fleet tender, belgium
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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i like it |
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Knight of Truth Admiral
Joined: 12 Jan 2006 Posts: 2011
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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me too, and didnt admin say he would add it? for ones, youve done good in opening an old topic. but your still a spammer _________________ [img]http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/599/kot2ks1.jpg[/img]
MicroJak wrote: |
For fuck's sake would you both please stop fucking swearing!!!! |
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Reapin101 2nd Lieutenant
Joined: 21 Oct 2006 Posts: 12
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Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:36 am Post subject: |
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did this ever get put into the game??? it was a good invetion
lol its nostalgic looking at my old profile:)23 |
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